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 Red desync - Mostly Fixed!

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wizzitje
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PostSubject: Re: Red desync - Mostly Fixed!   Fri 22 Apr - 0:01

what part of BETA in the map name dont you understand?

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Namorax
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PostSubject: Re: Red desync - Mostly Fixed!   Fri 22 Apr - 0:12

Well, at least he could have fixed an error like that. It not some small bug or glitch after all.

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PostSubject: Re: Red desync - Mostly Fixed!   Fri 22 Apr - 1:07

A beta can only be a beta for so long. The map's been out for a few years.

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PostSubject: Re: Red desync - Mostly Fixed!   Fri 22 Apr - 1:55

monkeh wrote:
All these steps for someone to choose a mode on an old version of a Custom Game. This is just tedious and pointless for most WC players. What is the current problem other than the graphics/looks in regards to the newest/current UA2.

You keep calling this an old version. But there is no new version. UA2 2.0 is a completely different map. The clan that wanted their version to be hosted here has a different map. Both of those maps can no longer be considered ua2 1.5b and 1.5b is not a version number in this case it is title name to distinguish between two different games. Like Super Mario 1 and Super Mario 2.

I would love to play a version where it is fixed. But not at the cost of gameplay. I want to play ua2 1.5b, not something else.

vV_O wrote:
A beta can only be a beta for so long. The map's been out for a few years.
Anything can be Beta for however long it is needed (duke nukem anyone?). In this case it is not about "need" it is about that illidan stopped working on it completely. The last version illidan released stopped working years ago due to a warcraft patch. That version also has several bugs, resonator bug and hive queen bug among them.

illidan is not a dedicated (read awesome) developer like jk2pach who keep updating a map regularly. So the map never got the chance to exit the beta stage.

But really, the amount of people playing the map should be an indicator to whether the red player glitch is big enough of a problem or not to warrant a map switch(to an inferior map).
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PostSubject: Re: Red desync - Mostly Fixed!   Fri 22 Apr - 2:06

Not to turn this into a discussion (not saying I disagree with you), but UA2 is just a retro map which people have started playing again after not playing for a long time.
It was dead for quite a few months, even when the 2 bots were hosting.
They see it again, they'll play it because they have their old codes which still work. ("I wanna be the big man again")

The main thing I'm trying to push this into is: "Which EXACT thing works so we can fix the issue?"
I have tried the ctrl M, which works sometimes.
I have also had mixed theories about background programs (which is very far-fetched), but had different results with turning them off. (programs such as google chrome)

People don't want to see;
do this
do that
then do this
k, now you have to change this
ok restart wc3
you should be good until next game.

Let us pull together and find a universal result so we can say, "okay this map will be played without problems".


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PostSubject: Re: Red desync - Mostly Fixed!   Fri 22 Apr - 2:17

vV_O wrote:

The main thing I'm trying to push this into is: "Which EXACT thing works so we can fix the issue?"
Sorry. I do not know. But I always thought the overall easiest way would be to convince a benevolent codemonkey to have a look at it and fix it.


Last edited by Brickwall on Fri 22 Apr - 2:57; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Red desync - Mostly Fixed!   Fri 22 Apr - 2:20

Sounds like the best option, but can we find one?

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PostSubject: Re: Red desync - Mostly Fixed!   Fri 22 Apr - 2:41

How about we just try! the latest version and see how it goes (idc about it being a completely different game). The excuse of it being a different game is like when i first played Rc601 version 1.50 its completely different now in Rc601 2.** version. Games are supposed to feel different over time its something called progress. Who the hell is going to continue playing a version in which Red d/c 99.9% of the time. Idc what other clans want because they are not here nor are they doing anything to make the game better. Not trying to bash illidan or whatever but seriously its old as hell and I seriously suggest we try the newest version and just test it out. What is the harm in testing a new version (do the codes not work or something cause that's a legitimate reason);However, all ive seen was well its a different gameplay and the graphics are a bit cheesy. Lets just go as a community test out the latest version or a version that red doesn't have to d/c.
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PostSubject: Re: Red desync - Mostly Fixed!   Fri 22 Apr - 3:39

Edited.

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PostSubject: Re: Red desync - Mostly Fixed!   Fri 22 Apr - 4:11

edited?
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PostSubject: Re: Red desync - Mostly Fixed!   Fri 22 Apr - 14:16

yeah i'm gonna have to agree with monkeh on this one, I used to never desync as any color at all and now I can't play a game period, no matter what color I am. I've basically just gave up on playing UA2, it's not worth the hassle or the time to join four different games and wait like 10 minutes for it to fill up enough just so hopefully I won't desync.
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PostSubject: Re: Red desync - Mostly Fixed!   Fri 22 Apr - 14:24

Did you try play only UA2 on Bnet?
What I mean is: restart completly Warcraft III before join UA2 game. (This way, bugs caused by the Widgetizer tool should be avoided).

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PostSubject: Re: Red desync - Mostly Fixed!   Fri 22 Apr - 14:24

Personally i dont think there is a universal solution to this problem.For example if i am red and i ve turned off music i wont get desync no matter how many games i will play as red.hoever monkeh having his music off he still gets desync.The only temporaly way to solve this problem is to have red some1 that knows what to do and they wont get desync.i can be red without fear(except forgotting to turn off music) and i can think of only 3more players that never got desync: nesdsa, selfcursed and r1gg4.they are all very exp with game
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PostSubject: Re: Red desync - Mostly Fixed!   Fri 22 Apr - 14:32

I will try to explain this differently.

UA2 is a map altered with the tool called Widgetizer. It's a powerfull tool made to reduce a lot the loading time of the maps.
But it changes the datas of a file. And if you play an other map (widgetized or not) Warcraft III will use the changed data of the widgetized map. This might cause desync because all the players have not the same data used for the same map.
Then, the solution is to restart Warcraft III before joining a game.

Example: you play 2 maps.
Map 1: has a custom footman. No widgetizer.
Map 2: has also a custom unit using the same ID than the footman, except it's an imported model used for it. Let's say a tank. The map is widgetized.
You play map 1, no problem.
You play map 2. You will load the custom unit (the tank, using the same ID than the footman of the map 1). The other players load normally the tank, but you, because you played map 1, you load a footman on your computer.
Then, you play the same game, but with a difference due to the load of the wrong unit.
BAM. Desync (2 different versions of the same game).

To avoid this:
Play map 1.
Restart completly Warcraft III.
Play map 2.

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PostSubject: Re: Red desync - Mostly Fixed!   Fri 22 Apr - 14:44

if i understood correctly u mean that the footman has same id with tank and because of the widgeshit u get the desync.I see 2big problems here:
1. u cant know which maps have the widgeshit
2. restarting after each game can be rly boring and disappointing for ppl
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PostSubject: Re: Red desync - Mostly Fixed!   Fri 22 Apr - 15:07

Hammett_4 wrote:
if i understood correctly u mean that the footman has same id with tank and because of the widgeshit u get the desync.I see 2big problems here:
1. u cant know which maps have the widgeshit
2. restarting after each game can be rly boring and disappointing for ppl
Not after each game. Before each map switch. Which may or may not be the same depending on what mix of maps you intend to play.
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PostSubject: Re: Red desync - Mostly Fixed!   Fri 22 Apr - 17:47

Quote :
How about we just try! the latest version and see how it goes (idc about it being a completely different game). The excuse of it being a different game is like when i first played Rc601 version 1.50 its completely different now in Rc601 2.** version. Games are supposed to feel different over time its something called progress. Who the hell is going to continue playing a version in which Red d/c 99.9% of the time.
It sounds little strangely. Where did u get the number 99.9%?
When im not red i see that it happens in 2 times from 5(for different reds).
also
Why does it need to replace this map with newer one?
I think this version 1.5beta7 is something like classic.
(So if old music Mozart,Beethoven became unpopular we must
liquidate it and replace with something new - progress, right?)

To find out exactly what the problem is and how to resolve it - more friendly way.

for instance i know people who have no this problem, me either.
And what difference between our "war3 folders"/configurations/etc

Quote :
But it changes the datas of a file. And if you play an other map (widgetized or not) Warcraft III will use the changed data of the widgetized map. This might cause desync because all the players have not the same data used for the same map.
isn't there a way to check it by carrying all files from Download folder into another one (or deleting),
then downloading the map from bot and try to play as red for few games.

If it is so then the one who did it mustn't have this problem anymore (isn't it?).
but I'm not sure that it can help because only red gets desync.
(all who have difference should be dropped then)
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PostSubject: Re: Red desync - Mostly Fixed!   Fri 22 Apr - 17:54

[quote="d3f4g5"]
Quote :
How about we just try! the latest version and see how it goes (idc about it being a completely different game). The excuse of it being a different game is like when i first played Rc601 version 1.50 its completely different now in Rc601 2.** version. Games are supposed to feel different over time its something called progress. Who the hell is going to continue playing a version in which Red d/c 99.9% of the time.
It sounds little strangely. Where did u get the number 99.9%?
When im not red i see that it happens in 2 times from 5(for different reds).
also
Why does it need to replace this map with newer one?
I think this version 1.5beta7 is something like classic.
(So if old music Mozart,Beethoven became unpopular we must
liquidate it and replace with something new - progress, right?)

To find out exactly what the problem is and how to resolve it - more friendly way.

for instance i know people who have no this problem, me either.


99.9% (exaggerated but no way to determine the percentage without a proper study)

The newer one is new and doesn't have this problem and restarting WC before playing UA2 makes you have to play UA2 all the time and nothing else if you want to play it in the future (as red). Its either pach goes into it and changes the widgetizer or whatever or we try the newest version and see how that goes. Why are we playing on this old one anyhow?!? No one has yet to explain to me the reasons behind not hosting the newest version other than what I've said previously.
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PostSubject: Not only red   Thu 9 Jun - 0:27

monkeh wrote:
[ Why are we playing on this old one anyhow?!?
I can tell you why I and a handful of burningwinds veterans I know play it. Because it is loads and loads of fun. The other versions are not.



edit01: I had not really paid much attention to it before but I do not think it is red per se who gets disconnected. It seems it is the first player who gets desynched/disconnected. Red just happens to be the first player most of the time. But if there is no red, then blue gets the boot. If blue is not there either then the next colour and so on. edit02: Given that blue etc can't be "the first player" without disconnecting.


Last edited by Brickwall on Fri 10 Jun - 15:22; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Red desync - Mostly Fixed!   Fri 10 Jun - 6:42

monkeh wrote:

The newer one is new and doesn't have this problem and restarting WC before playing UA2 makes you have to play UA2 all the time and nothing else if you want to play it in the future (as red). Its either pach goes into it and changes the widgetizer or whatever or we try the newest version and see how that goes. Why are we playing on this old one anyhow?!? No one has yet to explain to me the reasons behind not hosting the newest version other than what I've said previously.

Although I admit I know nothing about the Widgetizer I don't see how restarting WC3 would have any affect on not de-syncing in UA2. Please keep in mind i'm basing this entirely off of what JK2pach said above about it.

The only way restarting WC3 before UA2 would solve any issues Widgetizer created, is if you played another map before UA2 that used it. Otherwise, your data is normal and restarting before UA2 would be pointless. I'm assuming Widgetizer isn't used in many maps, so this is most likely not a reason people are de-syncing. Also, if this was some issue with data, you would expect the person having the problem with Widgetizer would be the one de-syncing, not just red, or the "top player".

I've never looked into the de-syncing problem enough to come to any good conclusion about it, but I always assumed it had something to do with the menu. Something the map does different for red. Perhaps some other mp3 file played only for red while the menu is displayed. However, if what Brick said is true, that it's just the top player that gets de-synced, then what I always thought it was is wrong.

Another strange thing to add to the discussion is that there are some people (myself included) that can be red 99/100 times without problems, but every so often get de-synced for no apparent reason. Although this means nothing to me personally, perhaps this could help someone else figure it out.

The first UA2 game I played on my parents net last week I was de-synced as red, but after that I was fine. It was the first time I used their net in quite awhile.
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