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 Something Doesnt Seem Right...

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Drigonizer
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PostSubject: Something Doesnt Seem Right...   Tue 29 Mar - 5:20

I dont know what it is but the game just seems to be missing something:

The map just seems kinda "dead" it might be from the lack of NPC interactions since they are only used for about 1/4th of the mission objectives which have a low chance of coming up and the rest is soulless soldiers to defend certain objectives(project nexus is a good example the entire point of those soldiers is to die)

Maybe we could have a larger NPC interaction dont really have suggestions but: Extra text that appears during missions based on how far the mission is to being done/failed, Or smarter AI's like during defense missions they drop and "set up" positions like a few barricades and getting behind them

This is just me but games that are mostly "dead" such as usual MMO logic which is:
"Oh everyone around me is getting killed one by one Ill just stand here nothing bad will ha*BLEA*"
Current "defensive" strategy for the NPC's: "CROWD AROUND THIS ONE GUY AND STAND HERE SHOOTING"

Yes there is a lot of the NPC defended missions where they do walk(aviary, airfield is surrounded, nexus and they need time is a few) but this doesn't make the map seem "alive" The only people alive are the ones in the first mission and soldiers that through some miracle didn't die in the outbreak from rc601

Another way to make the map seem "alive" is civilians trying to stay alive around the map:
(kinda like UA2 and the north/south towns short areas of defense but if you stay there too long you fuck up the towns)
And small "rebel" groups that appear around the map running through it picking up equipment randomly(just appears in inventory or they spawn with it) they kill a bunch of zombies then teleport off the map
You could ether kill them and get the equipment they have and risk more zombies coming or leave them to relieve pressure but lose the chance at some valuable items(there could be an item or two you can only get from them)

Shit I turned this into a suggestion post meant this to be discussed >.<

W/E just post ideas that you believe could make the map seem more "alive"
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nqp
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PostSubject: Re: Something Doesnt Seem Right...   Tue 29 Mar - 9:40

well this "accident" the zombie break out isnt going that long.. so the idea that the complex looks like a 1 year old warzone.. is kinda false Smile
good point
jk could add there another side mission like "find the 5 fleeing civillan groups"
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Nyarla
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PostSubject: Re: Something Doesnt Seem Right...   Tue 29 Mar - 11:38

i agree right now all they are there is dying while tanking greatest amount of zombies for me. more npc interaction is fine, like the squads that spawn each chapter could do a more talking like calling for medics, using their skills or just saying some random stuff so we get a laugh out of em. make the npcs u call as support, the ones u don't control, give off a cool comment upon arrival or when they die and have them follow the one who summons for the one minute they stay.

if u need stuff for what they could say during missions, just ask and i shall spam.
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jk2pach
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PostSubject: Re: Something Doesnt Seem Right...   Tue 29 Mar - 12:42

I agree with you. I'm on it. (Currently: added different random texts when NPCs are attacked / poisonned / fractured / biohazzard-ed)

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PostSubject: Re: Something Doesnt Seem Right...   Tue 29 Mar - 14:12

3 new systems at the moment:

-One to make soldiers spam text in various situation (attacked, negative buffs, meet a hero)
-One to make random civilian spawns go to the railroad station and wait for trains to evacuate them (meaning: trains are periodically spawned)
-One to make random civilian spawns go to the airfield and wait for helicopters to evacuate them (meaning: helicopters are periodically spawned)

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PetarSword
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PostSubject: Re: Something Doesnt Seem Right...   Tue 29 Mar - 18:44

jk2pach wrote:
-One to make random civilian spawns go to the railroad station and wait for trains to evacuate them (meaning: trains are periodically spawned)
-One to make random civilian spawns go to the airfield and wait for helicopters to evacuate them (meaning: helicopters are periodically spawned)
Since u do that, u could add random civilian spawns go to the ship station (or how is it called) and etc. (trains, planes and ships Wink)
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PostSubject: Re: Something Doesnt Seem Right...   Tue 29 Mar - 18:51

send the text over to me if you need some english whoring on it Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Something Doesnt Seem Right...   Tue 29 Mar - 19:32

About the evac points: let's see with only AF and trains at the moment (that still makes more AI units = more targets for creeps).

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Drigonizer
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PostSubject: Re: Something Doesnt Seem Right...   Tue 29 Mar - 22:25

Can you leave this up so we can keep with ideas for a more alive map?
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PostSubject: Re: Something Doesnt Seem Right...   Tue 29 Mar - 23:14

-new random text: somtimes it spams a lot, and usually the same text again and again and again (it gets annoying) perhaps you should do it like on Ua2, there is like a 1/100 chance when you throw a grenade that you get the line ''GTFO NOOB I GOTTA KILZZ.'' what if you make that a 1/500 shots chance or smting.

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vV_O
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PostSubject: Re: Something Doesnt Seem Right...   Tue 29 Mar - 23:21

wizzitje wrote:
-new random text: somtimes it spams a lot, and usually the same text again and again and again (it gets annoying) perhaps you should do it like on Ua2, there is like a 1/100 chance when you throw a grenade that you get the line ''GTFO NOOB I GOTTA KILZZ.'' what if you make that a 1/500 shots chance or smting.
^epicly pro

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PostSubject: Re: Something Doesnt Seem Right...   Tue 29 Mar - 23:24

vV_O wrote:
wizzitje wrote:
-new random text: somtimes it spams a lot, and usually the same text again and again and again (it gets annoying) perhaps you should do it like on Ua2, there is like a 1/100 chance when you throw a grenade that you get the line ''GTFO NOOB I GOTTA KILZZ.'' what if you make that a 1/500 shots chance or smting.
^epicly pro

tankz, and i mean that a text line should not be spammed as much as it does now. (and perhaps some fun text's)
i favor men > women

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Last edited by wizzitje on Tue 29 Mar - 23:33; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Something Doesnt Seem Right...   Tue 29 Mar - 23:25

what?

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Once bitten, twice.....zombie
The rset can be a toatl mses and you can slitl raed it whotiut pleborm. Tihs is bseacue the huamn mnid deos not raed eevry lteter by ilsetf, but the wrod as a wlohe.
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Last edited by vV_O on Tue 29 Mar - 23:39; edited 4 times in total
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Nyarla
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PostSubject: Re: Something Doesnt Seem Right...   Tue 29 Mar - 23:25

the civs draw away the spawns, we had mission to defend external outpost and just sat there for 2 mins with nothing coming for us. during game the zombies rather followed civs over the map instead of going for mission objective
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PostSubject: Re: Something Doesnt Seem Right...   Tue 29 Mar - 23:29

Nyarla wrote:
the civs draw away the spawns, we had mission to defend external outpost and just sat there for 2 mins with nothing coming for us. during game the zombies rather followed civs over the map instead of going for mission objective

wrong topic newp Embarassed

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PostSubject: Re: Something Doesnt Seem Right...   Tue 29 Mar - 23:36



orly?

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jk2pach
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PostSubject: Re: Something Doesnt Seem Right...   Tue 29 Mar - 23:49

Glitch / Spam fixed for next release. Coming in a few minutes (yes tonight it's crazy releases)

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Drigonizer
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PostSubject: Re: Something Doesnt Seem Right...   Wed 30 Mar - 3:55

OK SO:
Problems:
Civs are all charging towards 2 spots on the map now this is understandable but they aren't using any organization
("There's a helicopter" from one lone civ)
No reason for players to guard the civs
Not that polished(understandable)
Children yell "DAMN" *facepalm* this has to be fixed

Possible Fixes:
Have groups of civs spawn invulnerable and stay in an area until a player walks within a certain distance of them civs then become vulnerable and move towards an evac point while player guards them.
When a group is ready(every 30 seconds + and open spot for the group) a differently coloured ping shows up for their location(blue?)
When a group reaches the evac point and gets evac'd the squad recieves 1 xp point for every civ that escapes
Make it so certain phrases only appear with circumstances
(another civ within 500 & no player within 500 = civ saying there is a [evac method] coming at a small chance)
Keep some of the civs running to be evac'd with about 300 or so ms and invuln to keep some life-like-e-ness
Have some civs scream something even though there is a bunch of these a few more could be usefull
(depending on speed and whats happening to them)
Give all civs the sprint spell which they use if they take damage
Thats all I got atm

Extra things:
Small Squads of TI soldiers or Civilian survivors(with guns) running around the map which can also be guided to the evac positions for extra xp
(5 per group)
Fix the trains(Everything behind the first car wont turn)
Extra xp from not affected by difficulty
Expand on the railroad system(This is kinda a personal request from me cause I really really like trains Very Happy)
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Nyarla
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PostSubject: Re: Something Doesnt Seem Right...   Wed 30 Mar - 8:54

wizzitje wrote:
wrong topic newp Embarassed

nah wizz i don't think its wrong here, since its not a bug, just something concerning the changes through civs announced in this very thread. maybe i should've opened a new one but since all of this happened recently i decided to post it here to continue the still ongoing discussion about civs
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PostSubject: Re: Something Doesnt Seem Right...   Wed 30 Mar - 12:18

Allright so first things;
As soon as I use units such as the civs currently; they will be glitch for a simple reason: each unit on the map will influence the game.
Here, they were employees. You all saw that if they are not vulnerable, creeps follow them, fucking the entire creeps system / quest path.

For this reason, in 2.65, civilians will be neutral units. It's less fun, but neutral is the player who is the less a problem for creeps AI.

The perfect solution would be to remove human players 8 and 9 (grey and light blue) to get special players used only for this kind of situation. But it would turn the map into a 8 player slots, which is less fun.
And I currently use ALL player slots from 0 to 15 except neutral aggressive (which is too hard to control with a custom AI).

An other thing: I completely agree with the fact it's good to have an alive map, but I will not add any way to get extra experience again.

Moreover, any system which regulary check things for civilian will increase the use of CPU resource (check nearby units, conditions etc...) so I have to use the minimum functions

Finally: update log for next release before modifications made due to your messages:

2.65 wrote:
-System changed: Chopper evacuation: civilian / helicopter wave interval raised from to 34/73 seconds to 73/145 seconds; civilians are now neutral units and no longer invulnerable
-System changed: Train evacuation: civilian / train wave interval raised from to from to 34/73 seconds to 73/145 seconds; civilians are now neutral units and no longer invulnerable
-Bug fixed: Chopper evacuation: the quests should no longer consider the employees used for this system as quest units
-Bug fixed: Train evacuation: the quests should no longer consider the employees used for this system as quest units

Now, considering this, answers:

Drigonizer wrote:
Civs are all charging towards 2 spots on the map now this is understandable but they aren't using any organization
Indeed, I'm personally fan of random. I will change this to civ groups. (random point to spawn a group of X civs instead of X random points for the X civilian)
Drigonizer wrote:
("There's a helicopter" from one lone civ)
Changed to "A helicopter is waiting for us"
Drigonizer wrote:
No reason for players to guard the civs
Indeed. That's not a new kind of quests.
Drigonizer wrote:
Not that polished(understandable)
True. But remember the texts are dissipating quite fast (the objective is not to get a map overloaded with text)
Drigonizer wrote:
Children yell "DAMN" *facepalm* this has to be fixed
First question: what does facepalm mean? :O
Well, I changed this.
Drigonizer wrote:
Have groups of civs spawn invulnerable and stay in an area until a player walks within a certain distance of them civs then become vulnerable and move towards an evac point while player guards them.
When a group is ready(every 30 seconds + and open spot for the group) a differently coloured ping shows up for their location(blue?)
When a group reaches the evac point and gets evac'd the squad recieves 1 xp point for every civ that escapes
Refused (it's not made for this)
Drigonizer wrote:
Make it so certain phrases only appear with circumstances
(another civ within 500 & no player within 500 = civ saying there is a [evac method] coming at a small chance)
It's indeed useless to have civs spaming text if no hero near them.
I hope that will not lag the system, but they will now display text only if there is a hero within 1500 AOE of them.
Drigonizer wrote:
Keep some of the civs running to be evac'd with about 300 or so ms and invuln to keep some life-like-e-ness
civs are no more invulnerable. Okay for movespeed (will be randomed)
Drigonizer wrote:
Have some civs scream something even though there is a bunch of these a few more could be usefull
(depending on speed and whats happening to them)
Added some sounds when they are attacked.
Drigonizer wrote:
Give all civs the sprint spell which they use if they take damage
Ok, but only for evacuation-system-spawned civilians (not for regular). 20% chance they sprint.
Drigonizer wrote:
Small Squads of TI soldiers or Civilian survivors(with guns) running around the map which can also be guided to the evac positions for extra xp (5 per group)
Refused
Drigonizer wrote:
Fix the trains(Everything behind the first car wont turn)
If this was easy, I would Wink There is no possibility to detect the orientation of railroads without a heavy CPU power devourer check.
Drigonizer wrote:
Extra xp from not affected by difficulty
Refused.
Drigonizer wrote:
Expand on the railroad system(This is kinda a personal request from me cause I really really like trains Very Happy)
Same here, it was so fun to develop Gate system for the non-ready-and-never-will-be project Across the Star, that's why I developed this as well for RC601.
Problem is: I would have to change a lot the terrain to make a railroad go accross the map (to make it more visibile). Maybe later.

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PostSubject: Re: Something Doesnt Seem Right...   Wed 30 Mar - 16:19

You could make cars follow the engine so it turns on its own
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PostSubject: Re: Something Doesnt Seem Right...   Wed 30 Mar - 18:59

why you dont use the idea from notd:am .. ill explain what i mean
during the first chapter those civillans "follow" the players to the mission targets
and when the first chapter is done those civillans leaving the area (because of the danger .. bigger monsters and so on)
the party could get a small bonus exp for each civillan who is still alive ..
and during the later chapters you wont have problems with the aggro system .. so monsters will attack players and wont run behind 1 left alive civillan
what do you think?
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PostSubject: Re: Something Doesnt Seem Right...   Wed 30 Mar - 19:31

nqp wrote:
why you dont use the idea from notd:am .. ill explain what i mean
during the first chapter those civillans "follow" the players to the mission targets
and when the first chapter is done those civillans leaving the area (because of the danger .. bigger monsters and so on)
the party could get a small bonus exp for each civillan who is still alive ..
and during the later chapters you wont have problems with the aggro system .. so monsters will attack players and wont run behind 1 left alive civillan
what do you think?

first read up a little more about notd: am. the civs there don't follow u to the missions, they are part of the first mission, that is protecting the village ( u get no xp for doing it). the mission continues, after several random quests, with the evacuation of all the civs, that u kept alive, using a passing through convoy. after convoy is done u get xp for convoy alive and for every civ that is alive. meaning u now get paid for the first main quest. in rc601 u only protect the village and get imediatly rewarded.
civs only stay the first half of the first chapter, depending on random chances, u might have to search for remaining villagers later, but that too is a quest u get only paid for successful evac and not the amount of civs u bring to safety. ppl like abusing em as flamethrowers / itemmules / meatshields / for completing quests or any kind of slave job u can come up with.

and i don't think RC should copy too much out of notd
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