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 new player friendly beginning

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Andx667
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PostSubject: new player friendly beginning   Wed 12 Jan - 21:51

in the last game one thing came clear to me: new players usually dont stay long in the game, this i caused by 2 things:

- the first is: they think its boring, caused by the fact that most missions are just defense
- the second and more important thing is: they mostly die during chapter one, wandering around alone, if the higher ranks try to explain something to them the dont listen most of the time, or the first thing apllies

so my suggestion (at least for tda) is an intro (not a sequence, a playable part of the game, for the first 5-10minutes) where new players get the basic things telled, the contents should be something like:
- dont get hit
- stay with the others
- green pings for mission
- ...

maybe take a look at the dotd6 introduction mission, where a few npc units acompany ur squad, help u killing and telling u what this is all about

/discuss
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monkeh
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PostSubject: Re: new player friendly beginning   Wed 12 Jan - 22:09

I completely agree with this. We should make the game more noob friendly because its just too much for them to handle. I think for all or most of Ch.1 the npc helps newcomers or people with less than 10k exp if possible to code.
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Namorax
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PostSubject: Re: new player friendly beginning   Wed 12 Jan - 22:23

the players wuit because they die in the first few mins after walking off alone, or because they get bored with the game in the first 2 missions.
Having a sequence where the pros have to see the "tutorial" over and over again is also not good -.-

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monkeh
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PostSubject: Re: new player friendly beginning   Wed 12 Jan - 22:25

Namorax wrote:
the players wuit because they die in the first few mins after walking off alone, or because they get bored with the game in the first 2 missions.
Having a sequence where the pros have to see the "tutorial" over and over again is also not good -.-

he's not suggesting pros get to see a tutorial... its part of the story mode and its j ust a npc that you can interact w/ if you like. Too many newcomers quit because there is no guidance in the game.
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PostSubject: Re: new player friendly beginning   Wed 12 Jan - 22:32

monkeh wrote:
Namorax wrote:
the players wuit because they die in the first few mins after walking off alone, or because they get bored with the game in the first 2 missions.
Having a sequence where the pros have to see the "tutorial" over and over again is also not good -.-

he's not suggesting pros get to see a tutorial... its part of the story mode and its j ust a npc that you can interact w/ if you like. Too many newcomers quit because there is no guidance in the game.

the first 2 missions there are have extra NPC's at the moment. so why add ''another group of npc's, i suggest 1 npc moving to town on start which screams Follow Me!!!!.

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monkeh
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PostSubject: Re: new player friendly beginning   Wed 12 Jan - 22:34

it doesnt have to be for first 2 missions and it doesnt have to shoot it can just be invulernable non attacking unit.
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qwerqwer1234
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PostSubject: Re: new player friendly beginning   Wed 12 Jan - 23:39

How about adding sigh on the ground (for example: direction arrow in green colour) for the first mission with a large area? what we are dealing with is group of young player so i am afraid that we have to set up clearly.
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PostSubject: Re: new player friendly beginning   Thu 13 Jan - 0:03

i tried the compass thing before pach denied the suggestion due to no idea why
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Andx667
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PostSubject: Re: new player friendly beginning   Thu 13 Jan - 0:21

a more logical mission order design would also help alot
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nqp
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PostSubject: Re: new player friendly beginning   Thu 13 Jan - 0:22

intro isnt a bad idea
maybe you know the new player mode in notd 3
there you can see how a demolitions blow a fatty (which is essencial in notd)
its a short intro but an idea which might help
also when you got a squad of npcs which gives you commands (light commands, nothing like "you must come here" cause new players dont deal good with hard orders Smile )
but it will help a bit
also maybe a hint at the end of the intro
pay attention what high ranks told you cause they know the game Smile

when yuo create an intro which carry them away then will more newcomers stay cause they enjoy
but atm its like "eh i got a little gun and that pro just got a tank a aircraft and he build towers .. i feel so useless" and leave

regards
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vV_O
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PostSubject: Re: new player friendly beginning   Thu 13 Jan - 0:53

Andx667 wrote:
a more logical mission order design would also help alot

Missions made sense (Story-wise) but was changed due to predictability.


Now if you pass a missions, you could get one of the fail objectives which you would get if you failed the mission you passed.

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Jerico555
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PostSubject: Re: new player friendly beginning   Thu 13 Jan - 8:26

Namorax wrote:
Having a sequence where the pros have to see the "tutorial" over and over again is also not good -.-
Why not add a -skip button? Just like Founders of the North.
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Andx667
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PostSubject: Re: new player friendly beginning   Thu 13 Jan - 12:09

vV_O wrote:
Andx667 wrote:
a more logical mission order design would also help alot

Missions made sense (Story-wise) but was changed due to predictability.


Now if you pass a missions, you could get one of the fail objectives which you would get if you failed the mission you passed.

i know this, cause i played rc601 back in those days

but still i like to see this comeback in someway
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Namorax
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PostSubject: Re: new player friendly beginning   Thu 13 Jan - 14:43

but then game becomes boring -.-

I prefer feeling irritated with getting "fail"-mission after winning the previous mission then alwas knowing what can happen next Exclamation
And to be honest, I never felt irritated. I just assume theres another Team that "fails" in our place^^

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monkeh
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PostSubject: Re: new player friendly beginning   Thu 13 Jan - 18:41

namorax this thread isn't about how you feel towards the game. we are trying to discuss ways to improve the game for newcomers and other ideas for balancing Very Happy
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Namorax
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PostSubject: Re: new player friendly beginning   Thu 13 Jan - 18:58

This isn't just my preference:
One cause of map becoming unpopular is repetiveness. If the players experience always the same after doing something... they quit.
Take Dota: I believe one reason for its popularity is that absolutely every game is different, even though the game itself is quite simple (2x5 totally different heroes nuking it out).

And one reason to make the missions random was that most of the "fail" missions will never be played, since you have to WIN the missions to earn xp. Nobody fails missions just to have a chance to get a certain mission (I ignore the exceptions for now, I know they exist Razz)

How many players would play RC601 when the game is like:
Step#1) Capter begins, move to Point A (Starting mission)
Step#2) Win mission, move to point B, which depends on Point A
Step#3) Move to point C, Wait, Defeat Project.
Repeat Step #1-3 3 times, finish game. Begin at step 1 again...

Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep

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monkeh
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PostSubject: Re: new player friendly beginning   Thu 13 Jan - 19:08

Namorax wrote:
This isn't just my preference:
One cause of map becoming unpopular is repetiveness. If the players experience always the same after doing something... they quit.
Take Dota: I believe one reason for its popularity is that absolutely every game is different, even though the game itself is quite simple (2x5 totally different heroes nuking it out).

And one reason to make the missions random was that most of the "fail" missions will never be played, since you have to WIN the missions to earn xp. Nobody fails missions just to have a chance to get a certain mission (I ignore the exceptions for now, I know they exist Razz)

How many players would play RC601 when the game is like:
Step#1) Capter begins, move to Point A (Starting mission)
Step#2) Win mission, move to point B, which depends on Point A
Step#3) Move to point C, Wait, Defeat Project.
Repeat Step #1-3 3 times, finish game. Begin at step 1 again...

Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep

i agree however idc about the failed mission i believe its fine the way it is and we should have more randomness in each mission. I think primary concerns are the newcomers that need guidance.
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vV_O
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PostSubject: Re: new player friendly beginning   Thu 13 Jan - 19:35

300BT was that way, it was a snorefest. There was a special item which dropped off one of the fail missions, and we'd fail intentionally.
It's fine the way it is. If the story bothers newbies, and they can't get a laugh out of it; it's their issue.


The game would be boring if it was scheduled missions, based on outcome.

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Andx667
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PostSubject: Re: new player friendly beginning   Thu 13 Jan - 19:38

the problem behind this is the fact that the community isnt (or very very very slowly) growing, take the fact that right now about 10ppl writing here and about 20 ppl playing the game regularly

some fresh wind would be nice
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vV_O
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PostSubject: Re: new player friendly beginning   Thu 13 Jan - 19:41

The problem, you must understand, is that we have 2 types of players left on WC3.

Children (Yes children) and elitists, who have been playing for so many years.


The elitists want to pick RC601 a part and insult you when you try your best to be nice and give assistance.

The Children ....nuff said?

There's not nice way of saying it. It's an amazing game, but the people who have access to it are idiots.

We are very lucky to have the kind of people that we do, on these forums. They have heads on their shoulders and can speak without hiccuping into idiocy.

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WHO WAN'S THIS DAWG!?


Once bitten, twice.....zombie
The rset can be a toatl mses and you can slitl raed it whotiut pleborm. Tihs is bseacue the huamn mnid deos not raed eevry lteter by ilsetf, but the wrod as a wlohe.
-END TRANSMISSION-
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wizzitje
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PostSubject: Re: new player friendly beginning   Thu 13 Jan - 20:06

''awmygawd vvo yoo suck cuz im l33t and i r a l33tist all teh waay!''

ow and yes i agree on most of it, but mention the 3rd group to then king

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monkeh
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PostSubject: Re: new player friendly beginning   Thu 13 Jan - 20:36

Enough with the missions outcome... that's not the main issue at hand guys. The main issue is that we should have at least some sort of tutorial for newcomers that doesn't effect us pro players. That is all that this thread is suggesting.
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vV_O
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PostSubject: Re: new player friendly beginning   Thu 13 Jan - 20:40

Then how about this?



(as jerico mentioned for founder of the north). A skip button, and if they do not type -skip, their hero becomes invulnerable and they get a quick 101?


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WHO WAN'S THIS DAWG!?


Once bitten, twice.....zombie
The rset can be a toatl mses and you can slitl raed it whotiut pleborm. Tihs is bseacue the huamn mnid deos not raed eevry lteter by ilsetf, but the wrod as a wlohe.
-END TRANSMISSION-
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monkeh
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PostSubject: Re: new player friendly beginning   Thu 13 Jan - 21:21

vV_O wrote:
Then how about this?



(as jerico mentioned for founder of the north). A skip button, and if they do not type -skip, their hero becomes invulnerable and they get a quick 101?


or a tutorial video or that npc that helps them out like DOTD. Id prefer the npc because i think it could be more interactive maybe?
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Andx667
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PostSubject: Re: new player friendly beginning   Thu 13 Jan - 21:33

just some lateevening-universaty thought: make the npcs around town/crash site say the important things instead of their small talk (do they even say anything)?

ofc ppl still need to read it
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